Interview With Jermaine Jackson
Aired September 15, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: Tonight, what really happened to Michael Jackson.
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: This is a story about greed and power.
MORGAN: Jermaine Jackson, who he blamed for his brother's death.
Do you think there may be some kind of cover-up?
JACKSON: What do you think? I would think that as a family member, yes.
MORGAN: The emotional true story of Michael's life.
JACKSON: It's like they pushed and pushed and pushed this bird who was injured, his wings were injured, and they wanted him to push him off the cliff and expected him to fly and he fell.
MORGAN: And his death.
JACKSON: What were they concerned about? Their money, their jobs or my brother's health?
MORGAN: The real story behind all those scandals.
JACKSON: If you don't think it hurt him when people called him "whacko jacko." When they called him crazy and this and that.
MORGAN: And the Jackson family behind closed doors.
JACKSON: The crap and the garbage that has been written about my family for so many years and all these other books that were unauthorized, and people saying things that didn't know us.
MORGAN: Jermaine Jackson, the primetime exclusive. This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Jermaine, I want to start with the imminent trial of Conrad Murray, Dr. Conrad Murray. Obviously, hugely significant for you and your family and for the world to try and discover if through the process of this trial, we work out what really happened to your brother Michael.
As we approach the start of this trial, what are your feelings? JACKSON: My feelings are, just as well as the family, the truth is going to come out. And it's something that we've been long awaited for. And it's up to the point now where it's been a lot of speculation and hearsay, but I think we're all going to -- it's not going to bring closure but it's just going to give us a clear understanding of what really happened.
I think it's important that the fans and the public and -- as well as ourselves need to know what really happened. What took place. But there's so many things that happened that we weren't aware of as a family because we were kept away.
MORGAN: Do you think that Conrad Murray was solely responsible for your brother's death?
JACKSON: My gut feeling is the fact that Conrad was present during his death, there's a lot of questions to be answered. And we don't know yet. Until the trial unfolds and we sort of get the facts. Whether they'll come to the facts or not.
By doing the book, I got a clear understanding of a lot of things that I didn't know from the past. And how all these things came about with Michael's life and who he interacted with during his business and all those things. Up to present day.
MORGAN: I mean it seems to come down to this. I would imagine Conrad Murray's defense is going to be that he was encouraged to prescribe this Propofol drug to Michael that night. The drug that is believed to have killed him.
I would imagine that on your side you will be arguing as a family, and I'm sure the prosecutors will, too, that this was all Conrad Murray's decision. It then comes down to addiction. Whether Michael was addicted, what he was addicted to, and whether the prescription of this drug was just a part of that addiction. What do you think of that?
JACKSON: Well, I think that, first of all, being a cardiologist and not an anesthesiologist, there's a big difference. Conrad Murray (INAUDIBLE) had no business giving my brother Propofol. I just learned about this drug by doing the book.
In terms of them trying to say my brother was an addict or addicted, Michael, we know my brother was on prescription drugs. Whether it was Demerol because of pains, excruciating pain, and also him wanting to have sleep.
MORGAN: I mean that's the powerful part of your book.
JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: Michael just had this chronic inability to sleep. I mean I knew, having worked in the media for years, that he had a difficulty with it. I had no idea how bad it was. I mean he would literally be unable to get any sleep at all. Like night after night. JACKSON: Well, just coming off the stage and there's like 180,000 people out there and your adrenaline is going so high, and you're doing so much and it's hard to just put your head on the pillow and sleep because it just goes on and on, even after you're off the stage.
He always said that he didn't want to tour because he didn't want to have the problems of not sleeping and having to take Demerol and things like that, but he wasn't addicted to it, because his behavior wasn't to the point that he was an addict. He was looking for this, too, for sleep. And he trusted whoever administered these things to him. He trusted them.
MORGAN: I mean when people hear about drug addictions like with celebrities they tend to think, you know, cocaine or ecstasy or heroin, whatever it may be. Clearly, we're not in that kind of situation with Michael. These were not drugs to make him high or get any kind of high experience. The drugs he was taking were all for pain and all for sleep.
JACKSON: Exactly.
MORGAN: Could it have been, though, that by the end, after years of insomnia, that he had become, in a way, addicted to any type of drug that would get him the sleep he craved? Do you think that's possible?
JACKSON: I really don't know but I do know that it's a difference between Demerol and Propofol. And --
MORGAN: Tell me about Propofol, because you studied this for your book.
JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: And it's fascinating what you found out. It's a much stronger drug than people realize.
JACKSON: It a much stronger drug. It puts you out and it's basically used when people are under the knife and they want to not feel the pain. But the key to this is, when you're a proven anesthesiologist and you're in the proper settings, and the right medical field, you know how much to administer to the patient to keep him above the line, but not so above where he'll feel the pain. And keep them from going below the line.
MORGAN: Is Propofol considered by most physicians to be an anesthetic, rather than just a sleeping pill?
JACKSON: I really don't know. But I do know for Michael to get sleep he had to be knocked out. And this wasn't just this one night. This was administered in him on an ongoing basis, which was causing his body to deteriorate and him to act differently and have different symptoms in his behavior.
MORGAN: You as a family, you were probably the closest to Michael of all the family. But collectively, you must have all known that he had this ongoing chronic problem with sleep in particular. When did you see Conrad Murray that night in the hospital?
JACKSON: I saw Conrad when I first went to the hospital. And then when I came back from seeing Michael I went back to the room where my mother was. I was sitting on the other side of the table, like I'm here, the table is between us, my mother is here and you're Conrad.
We weren't this close, though. I didn't know who he was. But I said, something strange about this guy. He's acting strange. I had formed that opinion before I found out who he was.
MORGAN: And when you say strange do you mean --
JACKSON: His behavior.
MORGAN: -- suspicious? Did he look guilty?
JACKSON: His behavior, how he was acting.
MORGAN: Did he look concerned?
JACKSON: Everything. All of the above. And it was just something that just wasn't right. It just wasn't normal.
MORGAN: Did you talk to him?
JACKSON: No, no.
MORGAN: Did he say anything to any of the family?
JACKSON: He wanted to come in, I guess, and say his -- something to my mother and his condolences or something but I felt uneasy with him.
MORGAN: Did you know that he'd been with Michael that night?
JACKSON: I found out, yes, that he was with Michael. He was there. But, see, this is a strange case because this is treated as a homicide and the LAPD who did their investigation and then there's the whereabouts of who came in and out of the house. The tapes are erased. And so we really don't know. There's a lot of questions. That's --
MORGAN: Which tapes were erased?
JACKSON: The surveillance tapes were erased.
MORGAN: They're all gone?
JACKSON: Well, some of the tapes were erased to the whereabouts who would come in and out during the time, at the house.
MORGAN: Who do you think would erase it?
JACKSON: They were in the hands of the police department.
MORGAN: Do you think there may be some kind of cover-up?
JACKSON: What do you think? I would think as a family member, yes.
MORGAN: Coming up, Michael's last tour, why Jermaine says it was too much for him.
JACKSON: They were only concerned about the show. Moving the show forward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: If you watch "This Is It", which I've done several times, you cannot dispute the fact that he seems to be in pretty good physical shape. The rehearsals are going great, the show looks amazing, he looks excited. This is not a portrait of a guy who is on the verge of death.
So I, as a fan of his, was shocked when I watched it to try and work out how it came to his death. You as a family member, it must be 10 times as shocked. Because you resumed, you were talking to him most days. And how often did you talk to Michael?
JACKSON: We spoke to him not that much during rehearsal. But we last saw him May 14th.
MORGAN: Do you know how long he had been given Propofol?
JACKSON: When -- when "This Is It" there was a lot of footage that was taken out that no one saw and because that was the edit before the edit. And it's just -- so much went on. So much went on.
MORGAN: And is that footage damaging? I mean do you see a guy in a bit of a daze? A bit of a zombie? I mean what is the stuff we didn't see?
JACKSON: Well, things that we noticed. And this is why the defense is going to try to paint my brother out to be a drug addict and he was very dependent on drugs, and it's not true. Because how could someone be dependent on drugs since 2008, he was dancing four hours a day and he had a five-year plan of starting a new life. And --
MORGAN: Well, let me throw something to you about this. I know somebody who's a very famous TV star. Very famous. One of the biggest stars in the world. Who's a friend of mine. Who takes sleeping pills every night to sleep because he finds the adrenaline, there's just too much going on. Been doing it for years.
That is a form of addiction. You know I was on Ambien after breaking some ribs for three and a half weeks once. When I tried to stop, it was like having a form of cold turkey for two or three weeks. It was -- these are strong drugs. Propofol is significantly stronger than anything that this friend of mine takes or that I was taking that time. So if Michael was getting this stuff over a regular period of time, he could still be performing perfectly well but, as you say, underneath it, the damage would be pretty intensive, I would say.
JACKSON: That's the question. Michael has always had an anesthesiologist around him when he was taking things.
MORGAN: Someone who knew --
JACKSON: Whether I knew or not.
MORGAN: Someone who knew about the process --
JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: -- of knocking somebody out for the purposes of sleep?
JACKSON: And plus, he's lived all this time doing Demerol and sleeping pills and also, pain pills, but the symptoms from Propofol is like no one knew that he was -- the public didn't know he was complaining about his body. One side being an ice cube. Another side being very warm.
MORGAN: Do you know how long he'd been taking it? Is there any evidence that you've seen?
JACKSON: I really don't know, but --
MORGAN: What is the family's belief? What is the theory that you think about that?
JACKSON: Our belief is that we knew he was doing prescription drugs to sleep and pain. We didn't know about Propofol. I just found out about this drug which I can't even pronounce hardly. But the symptoms, the reason why I want to talk about the symptoms because if you look at the past tours, we never heard of these symptoms that Michael -- not knowing whether to go right or left when he comes on stage.
MORGAN: Who was he -- who was he telling about the symptoms? The family?
JACKSON: No -- no, these are people that were around him. Him not being able to lift himself out of, what, five-pound prop or something, and repeating himself. And him, losing just unbelievable weight. And these are signs of toxic in your body.
MORGAN: Are these signs from what you've been able to work out of Propofol abuse? In other words, long-term use of that specific drug? Are these side effects that you have identified?
JACKSON: These are symptoms of that because of the fact that it was administered in him outside of a hospital setting, the person wasn't adequate enough to do this, and the fact that the night that he died, he was -- he had just arranged a $15 million payment on a house. So that's saying that he had plans of going beyond "This Is It." He has --
MORGAN: Do you think -- Michael was a tough character when it came to business. He knew his own mind. He was the most fabulously successful entertainer of his generation, and you know, by common agreement, when it came to his business, his craft, he could be a tough demanding task master of people. And also quite obstinate.
Is it possible, do you think, to be fair-minded to Conrad Murray for a moment, to be dispassionate, take yourself out of the family position for a moment. Is it possible knowing Michael, that he could have just ordered and demanded that Conrad Murray give him this drug?
That Conrad Murray, as I believe he's going to claim, had tried to resist it but eventually succumbed to pressure. Is that possible?
JACKSON: Whether it's possible or not, being a doctor, you take an oath. To care for your patient, not to kill them. You take an oath to do things that are proper in the medical world. Not to administer something outside of a hospital setting that's not even your area. You're a cardiologist, not an anesthesiologist.
MORGAN: Even if Michael had been --
JACKSON: Even if Michael had --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: He could just say no.
JACKSON: It was -- he trusted doctors. Dr. Murray should have said no, under no circumstances, no. But the fact that these symptoms went on around everybody there who weren't concerned about how he felt. They were only concerned about the show. Moving the show forward.
MORGAN: These are people working for AEG?
JACKSON: These are people working for AEG, working for him, working for the show.
MORGAN: I mean, there was always a bit of a circus around Michael in his life. How many of the people directly around him at the time that he died, do you think, are culpable for a form of responsibility for his death?
JACKSON: See, that's the question I have. That's a question we have as a family, because I've said in the book, why didn't somebody call me or Jackie or Tito or Marlon or his family, to say, come down here, your brother is not acting normal? Had we been called he'd be alive today because we would have taken him to the hospital.
MORGAN: Why do you think they didn't?
JACKSON: Because they wanted the show to go on. Because they knew -- it's the same thing of knowing that it wasn't his voice 100 percent on those songs that were released. It's all about -- see, this is a story about greed and power and money. And not looking at the person in Michael.
What I've tried to do in this book is to show my little brother, us growing up as the Jackson 5, kids with a dream. The human side of him. No matter how great the success had became, he still is from a family. We're humans and --
MORGAN: And you basically believe, I think as a family, reading the book, that the pressure from the people who were putting on this huge extravaganza, this amazing tour -- I had tickets to the first night in London. I was very excited about it. I saw him perform live a few times. The greatest live performer I've ever seen. There were people there who had nearly billions of dollars, I mean, certainly, tens, hundreds of millions of dollars at stake on this tour being successful. And all the commercials been afterwards. It's not in their interest to raise any alarm bells about his health, is it?
JACKSON: No, because the fact that, still, if you have tens of billions of dollars, you still want more but this was an event that was going to put money in everybody's pockets but at the same time, his health was ignored. They -- it's like they pushed and pushed this bird who was injured, his wings were injured, and they wanted him to push him off the cliff and expected him to fly and he fell. He fell.
MORGAN: When you saw Michael after he died in the hospital, how did he physically look to you? Obviously, he was dead but how did he look in terms of the Michael you knew? Was it the same kind of body that you would expect?
JACKSON: No. No. He had gone from 150 to 55 down to 136. He was frail. He was thin. I touched his face. His face was still soft. I kissed his forehead and then I pulled one of his eyelids back because I wanted to look in his eyes. And -- but I couldn't believe that what I saw wasn't my brother.
And for people who'd been around him all these years, to see that and not say something, it bothers me, it bothers us as a family. What were they concerned? What were they concerned about? Money, their jobs, or my brother's health?
MORGAN: Do you believe you're going to get answers from this trial? Or this simply just not going to be enough evidence?
JACKSON: To tell you the truth, Piers, it's -- the defense is going to try to paint my brother out to be even most horrible person and he wasn't. He was most concerned about the world and healing the world and children who are starving. And he just didn't sing about it. He did it. He showed the action.
That's not the behavior of a drug addict. That's not the behavior of a person who is irresponsible, who just want to be high all day. He was never was the type of person that took drugs for recreation who was just irresponsible or didn't care. So my -- to answer your question, we're not going to get Michael back. If Conrad Murray goes to jail, whatever happens, I really don't know. We lost an incredible human being, a brother who -- my little brother, who just really, cared about the world. To answer your question -- we really don't know.
We really don't know. I've written this book to show the world and to show the fans that this is who we are as a family. It was a long process. And it opened my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't know. The crap and the garbage that has been written about my family for so many years and all these other books that were unauthorized and people saying things that didn't know us.
And then thinking, we're from a small house in Gary, Indiana, with humble beginnings. So we were privy to crooks and people who had hidden agendas.
MORGAN: Were any of the family attend the trial?
JACKSON: Oh, yes.
MORGAN: Will you get out?
JACKSON: Absolutely.
MORGAN: Every day?
JACKSON: I'm going to try to be there as much as I can, yes.
MORGAN: How do you think you'll feel when you see Conrad Murray standing there?
JACKSON: I don't feel good about him before I knew him so I'm kind of feel the same way. But what I want for this whole thing is for Michael's death not to be a question of murder. And people's hearts and their minds. There's too many people who loved him.
Do you know, Michael, he was -- he touched the hearts of many people around the world. That's important. That's why the world cried when he passed because they understood him.
MORGAN: Want to take a break now, Jermaine, and then come back and go back to those early days in Indiana. Go back to the young Michael and the dreams that he had and you all had as a family.
JACKSON: Sure.
MORGAN: We reached out to AEG, the producers of Michael Jackson's final tour but he declined to comment o tonight's Jackson's statements, and they ignored the Michael Jackson's frail health or pushed him too hard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Jermaine, you've written this extraordinarily honest, frank and open book. It's called "You are Not Alone: Michael Through a Brother's Eyes." You were his big brother. What was he like as a young guy? Michael. Describe the Michael before it all became like a circus.
JACKSON: Michael was a very joyful kid. He was very fast on his feet. He was always into things. He was a bit nosey at times. He was a kid who always had dreams and he wanted to play store. And he -- I'd tell a story of how we were looking out the window and singing the Christmas songs and watching the snow fall, and looking at our neighbor's homes because we were not allowed to have Christmas being Jehovah Witnesses.
So these are things that he missed. That if you know the song "Childhood "it says a lot about his life.
MORGAN: I mean do you ever wish as a family, and I've interviewed Janet and LaToya this year and they've been quite revealing about this. Do you ever wish that you hadn't gone through the door marked superstardom to fame.
JACKSON: That's a good question. I've always been told I never left and I'm still that boy back in Gary because no matter where we come from, we never forget that little house and my father being laid off at the Indian Steel, and picking up potatoes to feed us and the ongoing rehearsals all the time. And being taught to stick together. Stick together. You're a family, not a business. You're a family.
MORGAN: I mean, we're here in California now, you've got this beautiful home. It's very luxurious. You've got amazing stuff you've collected all on a material level. They're the badges of great success that you've enjoyed with your and your family. But do you have peace of mind?
I mean did you lose peace of mind getting the way you've gotten?
JACKSON: No, because we've always known that this was just an illusion. And see, success is nothing. It's what you share with one another as a family. It's like, to prove my point, Michael was loved by so many people. And during the trial, the whole world was accusing him of child molestation and saying the most horrible things.
And all this stuff happened. And at the end of the day, what has true value is seeing his family there and supporting him. All this material stuff has no value at all. I mean he's gone. He can't take Neverland with him, the catalog, nothing. It's just he left a lot of good deeds and --
MORGAN: And he wasn't -- I mean Michael was a -- a contrary figure. You know, I interviewed him once. And he had a very gentle, sweet voice when talking about his family and children and so on. And then when I talked to him about business, it was like his voice dropped a couple of octaves and he switched into game mode. And it was very revealing to me that he was quite a chameleon.
You know, he had different characters depending on what you were discussing, I guess who he was with and so on. He had a tough streak to him, as well. But I also felt that he was not addicted to fame, but he loved a lot being a huge star. You know, he played that role very well and have played up to.
He'd go on the million dollar shopping sprees. He'd have the amazing cars, the jets, Neverland and so on. There was a large part of when I he loved, which he craved.
JACKSON: Yes, no. There's -- there's no question he loved enjoying his -- his life. But at the same time, he became a victim of his success. And it -- he became withdrawn. And then when the "Thriller" offer came, you know, for major success and that's when all the Wacko Jackos and the craziness and he's eccentric -- he's lost his mind, all these things they started calling him.
This was someone who never forgot how we were taught. You care about people. People have feelings. He had a lot of feelings.
You don't think it hurt him when people called him Wacko Jacko, or when they called him crazy and this and that?
And there were moments of things that happened --
MORGAN: But don't you think he slightly encouraged that impression by people?
I mean he would -- he would do strange things quite deliberately, I always felt, as a marketing tool. It made him much more interesting.
JACKSON: Some --
MORGAN: And so he played up to a lot of the things, didn't he?
JACKSON: Not so much of the Wacko Jacko. But the incident with a child. He got caught up in the moment.
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: Let me ask you about that that. Let me -- let me just play, again, devil's advocate, a little bit. When he did that, I couldn't have imagined you doing that with any or your kids. So, Michael wasn't -- he didn't play life rules by the same rules that we all do. I mean I would never have done that to one of my children. I don't think you would have done.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: But --
MORGAN: It was so obviously dangerous.
JACKSON: But, Piers, the see, we do things with children without knowing it. I agree, he -- he got caught up in -- in the moment. It was just an exciting moment.
But we've always -- we've all taken a child and tossed them up in the air and caught them. We've all done it.
MORGAN: Not over a balcony.
JACKSON: No, no. Not -- exactly. But when -- when children are falling, they lose their breath. So we've all done things.
But he was showing the fans his child. I agree it wasn't the smartest thing to do, but he got caught up in the moment.
MORGAN: What I always felt when he did stuff like that -- was it kind of propagated the myth that he wasn't entirely normal.
I mean did you feel that you lost the -- the little brother you once had, that he became something else? How did you feel as his brother?
JACKSON: Michael wasn't -- he was very, very much normal. How could someone write the songs that he wrote, you know, "Man in the Mirror," "Hero Hear the World," "Earth Song," and not be concerned about the most important things in life, about preserving this -- this world and making this place a better place to live for one another?
These are the most important things. See, these are things that we don't look at.
At the same time, he's a human being. Those final nights of "This Is It," I wish people would have looked at the human person and not the superstar and say, we ought to get him out. We need -- there's something wrong.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Your father was a tough guy, though, wasn't he?
JACKSON: My father was tough, but that's still love, because you care to discipline your child and to show them the right path to take.
MORGAN: The most interesting aspect of your father, from the book, I think, which is the racism that your father endured when he was young and how that may have been a very motivating, driving factor for the way he became, that he was determined to combat that, not just for him, but for his family, as well.
JACKSON: We didn't want color to hold us back. We were taught -- we knew there was racism, but we wasn't going to use that as a card. But we knew that it existed.
But at the same time, we wanted to go beyond color. We wanted to have a music and a message that transformed color. So we -- we knew that it existed, but it didn't stop us. We wanted to go beyond that. We -- we wanted to bring -- that's why we loved the peacock, because of the different colors coming together. And our whole thing is everything --
(CROSSTALK)
MORGAN: What is the true --
JACKSON: -- coming together.
MORGAN: As his big brother, what is the truth about Michael's skin color change over the years?
JACKSON: Michael --
MORGAN: Was any part of that a reaction to this stuff that was going on when he was young, this race, violence, threats and so on?
Was any part of him wishing he wasn't so black?
JACKSON: No. Not at all. Michael was happy with -- Michael suffered from a disease called vitiligo. It is the pigmentation of the skin on his body, which I said in the book -- there was -- one morning, he had slipped and fell. And he went to the hospital.
And so I came over. And my mother was there and my father was there. And he was very sad, because he said that he is the most misunderstood person in the world. And pulled off his shirt and just patches of his -- his brown skin.
That's why he wore the umbrella, because the sun would just make it worse. And there was a stage of lupus that he had, too. And it was just one of those things. Yes, he --
MORGAN: But all this stuff, again, that people used against Michael to make out he was slightly crazy, you, as a family member, were close to him, his big brother, saw that it wasn't that at all.
JACKSON: But see, this book is so important because all the questions that people had in their -- their -- their minds, I tried to answer these -- these questions by giving the facts. And I defy anybody who reads the book and not tells just up to his -- his death that something doesn't smell. Something smells. And that was -- those are the questions, as a family member, that's in my mind, in my mother's, in my father's.
We're waiting for this trial, but what is it really going to do for us?
We really don't know.
We really don't know.
MORGAN: We'll take another break now. And when we come back, I want to talk to you more about Michael, what he became like as an adult, how difficult he found it when "Thriller" became the biggest selling album in history.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MORGAN: Do you think when Michael became the biggest star in the world, after "Thriller," did it change him, do you think?
I mean, you were his big brother.
How did you see that impact on him as a human being?
JACKSON: Well, I do know that he wanted that. He wanted to sell the most albums ever. And he wrote it on his mirror in his bathroom at the -- at the Havenhearst (ph) house. He would look at it, see it, live it, believe it. That's -- that's what we were taught where we were young.
And he would visualize it and he -- he wrote that on his mirror and also to sell out stadiums.
MORGAN: Well, the strange thing about him is that as he got ever more successful and richer, his self-esteem levels seemed to deteriorate. And I -- I -- to illustrate that, he kept having more and more plastic surgery to, I guess, in his eyes, improve his looks.
And when I talked to Janet, she also talked of self-esteem issues. And La Toya did, too, as well.
Michael -- and Michael, I think, clearly had it, otherwise why would he keep trying to change the way he looked?
What was -- what was your view?
JACKSON: No, but I -- I think he -- he wanted to change the way he looked because he wanted to improve things. I mean, it's -- it's like if you have a zit on your face, you use -- you want to pop it.
MORGAN: Right.
JACKSON: If you see something on your face whether your ears are too big, your nose is too flat or your chin is too long, you want to improve it. I -- I wouldn't say it comes from self -- self-esteem. But there are surgeons out there, especially in Hollywood. And for people in Hollywood to talk about this, I mean most of Hollywood has been up under the knife. And -- and his whole thing was he wanted to correct things and to make things look better.
But I wish that he would have looked at the beauty of himself.
MORGAN: Yes, he was a good looking guy.
JACKSON: He was --he was just a natural beauty within and out. But --
MORGAN: But doesn't that tell you -- I don't want to hammer this point, but doesn't that tell you he must have had -- it wasn't just about wanting to look better. It's more to do with not being happy with how he looked.
JACKSON: Well, not so much of not being happy, but he just wanted to make things better.
MORGAN: Was it like making a record for him?
He comes -- is he about -- was he just a perfectionist?
JACKSON: He -- he -- I think in his mind, he had something that he was going after and -- but -- but these things -- once -- once you start, you get caught up into it and then you want to do a little here and there.
But he was still the Michael that we knew, the eyes, the heart, the feeling, the emotions and how he felt for people. That would never change.
MORGAN: You -- you clearly feel, Jermaine, that your brother is going to get trashed in this court case.
JACKSON: Well, look what they did in the -- in -- in the child molestation case. They painted him out to be the most horrible person and saying the most horrible things. And I'm sitting there. And just imagine you being Michael and you're sitting there and you, all your life, want to do nothing but good. And you're hearing these things that you've done and people who you trusted to come into your home is now sitting on the stand lying and saying the most hurting things.
It's hard. It's been tough for -- for him.
MORGAN: I remember -- I remember all that. And it just always struck me that I didn't know enough about the reality of the truth, certainly not in the position that you were. It just seemed to me that Michael, he did stuff that was -- to the public, just looked a bit inappropriate, especially as he got older.
Did you ever think as his big brother of warning him, it may not be a good idea to have sleep-overs with young boys, because people won't get it. They won't understand what you're doing.
JACKSON: See, but I'm the same way, because what's wrong with sleep-overs? What's wrong with sleep-overs with -- with kids?
It's only the demented mind that thinks something different. It's like Michael said it best, why do you -- why do you relate the bed to sex? We can have sex standing up. We can have sex in the car, outside, on the ground. And during those times when he was sharing his bed, he was on the floor.
But at the same time, these are people/'s minds who were demented. Like they were saying Neverland was used to bring in kids and to molest them. And when you go to Neverland, the wheelchair ramp going up to the rides. He was concerned about bringing the joy to kids who were terminally ill, who were dying of all types of diseases.
This is -- this is a man who lived his life according to God's will. This is a man who really cared about people. And it's so sad, because this world didn't look at that until after he was dead. And he was trying to say this all along while he was alive.
MORGAN: But when you watched the Martin Bashir interview, the infamous interview, clearly Michael did that to try and set the record straight, and, if anything, made it 10 times worse.
When you watched that, what did you feel about that interview?
JACKSON: Well, first of all, Martin Bashir needs to be slapped and he never should have been around Michael. And there again, Michael trusted. And -- and see, why this -- there's a question for us, why does people in the media want to say the most horrible things about someone, knowing that they have all the right intentions to do good?
MORGAN: I guess the answer, if I'm putting my media hat back on, because I worked in newspapers at the time of all that, is that it's not normal -- I use that word in, you know, just in a straightforward way -- for a guy of, say, 44, to be sharing a bed with a boy of 12. That -- it's not what most men of 44 do.
So when the public hear about this --
JACKSON: But how do you know that?
MORGAN: -- or the media --
JACKSON: How do you know that?
MORGAN: I just --
JACKSON: How do you know that?
MORGAN: I just guess -- I don't anybody like that.
JACKSON: No, but you can't just guess, because see, that happens all over the world and people don't think of that as people --
MORGAN: But do you believe that?
JACKSON: Yes. Yes.
MORGAN: You do?
JACKSON: Absolutely. Absolutely.
MORGAN: I don't think it does.
JACKSON: Yes, it does, because --
MORGAN: And I'm not casting aspersion over Michael. I'm saying I don't think it does happen all over the world. Was Michael too innocent for this modern world, do you think?
JACKSON: Absolutely. MORGAN: You really believe that, that he was just from a different era?
JACKSON: He was from the era that -- that we were from. I wish that we were around him more to tell him, Michael, get this person away from you because they have a hidden agenda, whether it was the -- all the people who accused him of -- of the -- of the child molestation, but at the same time, he saw the good in people, the good.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN (voice-over): When we come back, the trial and why Jermaine doesn't want Michael's children there.
JACKSON: I don't think they should be there. I think they should stay away from the TV because they're going to say the most horrible things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAGIC JOHNSON, FORMER NBA BASKETBALL PLAYER: This is celebration of his life, of his legacy.
BROOKE SHIELDS, ACTRES: He was caring and funny, honest, pure. And he was a lover of life.
PARIS JACKSON, SON OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: How are his three children?
JACKSON: Very, very, very well. We've made sure that they were in a school and we're constantly monitoring their whereabouts and their interactions with -- with kids at school. Because today, there are drugs in schools, in private schools, in public schools, everything.
But see, it's hard to sort of shelter them and keep them away from it. They have to grow up and be human beings. And -- and, you know, they --
MORGAN: Do they -- do they use the Internet and stuff like that?
JACKSON: They do, but we don't like it. We don't like it.
MORGAN: Because there's so much stuff about their father --
JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: It must be difficult.
JACKSON: It is very hard. We -- we want them to stay off the Internet and that's very, very, very tough. That's got to be monitored more.
MORGAN: Do any of them show any signs of wanting to follow in Michael's footsteps as entertainers?
JACKSON: They're very much into film. They're very much into film. They know about directors, producers and movies. And they have interests to be in front and behind the camera.
MORGAN: Who do you think has the -- the most chance of being a successful actor or actress?
JACKSON: Well, Paris is -- is -- is a star. And Prince is -- I -- I think Prince is into film now, too. He's -- they're all going to acting --
MORGAN: But here's the thing. You -- you have the choice now, because you're one of the elder family members here who can control the way these kids' lives go.
Given everything that happened to Michael and to you and to your brothers and sisters and your family, does any part of you want to stop that train right now for those kids and say, go and be a -- go and be a banker, go and be a doctor, go and do something completely different? Do not go down this path, because it's -- there are so many pitfalls?
Or does the good that you've enjoyed from all this outweigh the -- the bad?
JACKSON: The good definitely outweighs the bad. Bu
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